There's so much I want to say to whoever wrote that article, and especially with regards to their letter encouraging parents to opt out of their children receiving 'pro-homosexual propaganda' at school, but I hardly doubt the BNP would listen to a cogent, well thought out arguement.
But, I have to say, I do kinda agree with the point made about homosexuals not wanting it to be an issue, but then making it into one themselves.
It shouldn't be an issue, and people shouldn't feel discriminated against because of it. But because its not something to be ashamed of, I don't think it can be something to be proud of either. So homosexuality shouldn't be shoved in peoples faces, just like it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet and denied.
Homosexuals can't go around promoting it, making it into an issue, and then complain when other people have a different opinion.
I'm not up for debate at the moment, but once being LGBT is not an issue with wider society, we can stop making it an issue.
Sadly, we have to be 'proud' not to be LGBT but to be who we are. It's the only way things will ever change, and we as LGBT people have so much to thank of those people in the past 40 years who have stood up for us and gradually made being who we are acceptable.
The BNP never cease to amaze me - how they can scantily take facts and sound bites and twist them into a coherent argument. To breakdown the article would be interesting but I sumply aven't the time or energy.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
do you not understand where i'm coming from though, john?
if gay people make it into an issue, then so will other people. you can't go round telling everyone that you're pro-gay and not allow other people to be anti-gay. i'm not saying they can go around abusing people, but they are entitled to an opinion at least.
i just read that open mouthed. it's hard to believe that people so ignorant can be in positions of relative power.
what did amuse me, though, was the hypocrysy. at the bottom of one of the pages of unabated queer-bashing was the following statement:
"The BNP restates that it is not opposed to individual people who are homosexual or lesbian. As befits our national British reputation for tolerance, we state that it simply doesn’t matter what mature adults do in private and should not be a matter for State legislation or outside intervention. "
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quote: Originally posted by: ChallengeTheMighty "do you not understand where i'm coming from though, john?
if gay people make it into an issue, then so will other people. you can't go round telling everyone that you're pro-gay and not allow other people to be anti-gay. i'm not saying they can go around abusing people, but they are entitled to an opinion at least."
But who is making it the issue? If there is a law obstructing me, or if I am being persecuted in the street simply for being who I am - who is making it an issue. I don't see where you coming from at all I am afraid.
Its nothing to do with being 'pro-gay', I think that and words like 'promotion' are completely misleading - and the BNP and other such organistations exploit that. It's to do with pushing the issues that face us as LGBT people so that laws and attitudes can change.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
quote: Originally posted by: ChallengeTheMighty "do you not understand where i'm coming from though, john?
if gay people make it into an issue, then so will other people. you can't go round telling everyone that you're pro-gay and not allow other people to be anti-gay. i'm not saying they can go around abusing people, but they are entitled to an opinion at least."
i understand were you're coming from, but i still disagree. in a perfect world, we wouldn't need an lgbt history month, or education around these issues in schools. however we are not making an issue, it is discriminatory laws and public opinion/reaction to us which has made it an issue, and all we are doing is trying to resolve it. we're slowly getting there and i'm sorry to get partisan but we never would have made the progress we have under any other government over the last 8 years.
let's not also forget that there is still a far-right presence on campus, much as the no platform policy has driven it underground. we desperately need queer week, and it will make a difference. like i say, we're not making things an issue, we're resolving one.
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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble
i've never felt disciminated against, or been abused because of my sexuality, and so perhaps i would feel more like you if i had. because of that, i can accept what you're saying. if you don't make an issue of it, john, and yet you've been abused, you have my deepest sympathies, because that is wrong. completely.
quote: Originally posted by: shymike "i just read that open mouthed. it's hard to believe that people so ignorant can be in positions of relative power.
what did amuse me, though, was the hypocrysy. at the bottom of one of the pages of unabated queer-bashing was the following statement:
"The BNP restates that it is not opposed to individual people who are homosexual or lesbian. As befits our national British reputation for tolerance, we state that it simply doesn’t matter what mature adults do in private and should not be a matter for State legislation or outside intervention. ""
I like that quote. What is there to say? What a fvcking cvnt.
What upsets me the most is the pathetic asumption that this person is representing the view of the British public, that he is doing us a service by campaigning against what are essentially anti-bullying policies in schools. How does this cvnt sleep at night knowing that what he is ultimately doing is encouraging racial and homophobic hate crime, which in severe cases lead to killings. I really can't comprehend how people can be so closed minded. To say everyone is entitled to their own opinion is one thing, but freedom of speech has to have its limits, you can't have people like this trying to inflifct their biggotry on everyone. I haven't really had problems with abuse and stuff, but there is still work to be done, I still can't walk around the town centre with Phil without getting abuse shouted, and it is people like this who obviously want to keep it that way. Having a biggoted opinion is one thing, trying to force it onto people like its gospel truth is another. Lets have him Killed.
I am fvcking angry too.
And I would also point out to him that without Freddie Mercury there would have been no Queen. And Queen were massively influential on British music. So there you nazi.
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quote: Originally posted by: ChallengeTheMighty "i've never felt disciminated against, or been abused because of my sexuality, and so perhaps i would feel more like you if i had. because of that, i can accept what you're saying. if you don't make an issue of it, john, and yet you've been abused, you have my deepest sympathies, because that is wrong. completely.
x"
Your lucky. And the reason your lucky is that before you, there have been so many people unafraid to stand up, be proud of their sexuality and fight for the rights of LGBT people.
In London last year a man was beaten to death by six people in a homophobic attack.
We still have lots to do.
Stand up, be proud to be who you are and fight for the rights that LGBT people deserve.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
We can do something anti-homophobia and anti-prejudice, but we simply can't target particular groups. The safety of our members and the committee are paramount and I think that a focused campaign against the BNP may put people at risk.
I'll say more later.....
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
quote: Originally posted by: JohnK "Go to the links part of the main website and check out the Politics, News and Issues links. "
failing that you can meet my mate andy who has a metal plate in his head from when it was put through a bus shelter in liverpool for kissing his boyfriend.
new goldie lookin chain song: bus shelters don't crack skulls, pavements do / calling the police, fúck all they do.
i think the fact that the police in north yorkshire don't recognise hate crimes is an issue.
quote: Originally posted by: ChallengeTheMighty "But there aren't any issues I'm aware of that I feel the need to stand up and fight for "
there are now
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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble
quote: Originally posted by: ChipsAndLube " failing that you can meet my mate andy who has a metal plate in his head from when it was put through a bus shelter in liverpool for kissing his boyfriend. :"
Oh, guh. Poor guy.
I won't share any of my experiences, as they're not really relevant, but sufficient to say that I've been threatened with violence on a few occasions due to my sexuality. Quite a few of my friends have, too.
Discrimination can be incredibly easy to spot, but can be more covert than you think, too. For most people, there's still that fear of coming out to their parents and their friends, or apprehension about holding their same-sex partner's hand in public, or coming out in the workplace.
Hm. I really need to get more politically involved. There's no excuse.
one of my workmates always used to call me gay boy, or c ocksucker, or the like, just as a joke. but then one day i turned around and was like "well, actually....."
and he was fine with it. in fact, he felt kinda bad for having jokingly called me names before.
but my folks don't know. yet.
luckily my friends have accepted me for who i am, or i've made friends who i knew would be cool with my sexuality.
i just hope i never experience abuse or discrimination. that's kinda why my parents don't know, cos i'm not sure how they'll react.
although to be fair, my obsession with will young and justin timberlake should have given them some clues already.
i apologise for this post not really relating to the thread. x
-- Edited by ChallengeTheMighty at 01:08, 2005-02-15
and if anyone wants to talk about their feelings about their sexuality, you can talk to any of the committee. the same goes for coming out. we can't tell you what to do, but people have said in the past we've made them feel a whole lot better after talking in confidence to us.
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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble
quote: Originally posted by: ChipsAndLube "and if anyone wants to talk about their feelings about their sexuality, you can talk to any of the committee. the same goes for coming out. we can't tell you what to do, but people have said in the past we've made them feel a whole lot better after talking in confidence to us."
i was wondering whether it would or wouldn't be a good idea to start a thread about people's experiences of coming out. i can't decide if i think it would be a useful point of reference for those who haven't yet told their parents, friends from home etc, or whether it would just be an exercise in self interest.
i say that, cos i know i wouldn't have any problems with talking about myself on the forum, but i don't know whether it's of any interest or use to anyone else. obviously no-one has to post anything if they don't want.
i'm not sure actually why i'm hesitating. but if other people think it's a good idea, either say so here, or just go ahead and start the thread.
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alright stop, collaborate and listen,
ice is back with a brand new invention
right, next question..... which section should it go in? it's not political enough to go in politics, too serious for chat, musings etc, and doesn't really have the creative element for sketchbook.
decisions....
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alright stop, collaborate and listen,
ice is back with a brand new invention
stick it in general. that really ought to be day-to-day running of the society, but one of the reasons we run the society in the first place is to encourage peer support.
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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble
