Personally I do not see what right the church has meddling in the politics and governments of countries which represnet democratically people of all faiths and persuasions.
But you guys don't need me to tell you that.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
The church doesn't have any right they just dont understand that the world has changed since the time when the church had the power that it used to have in catholic countries.
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I reserve... I reserve... I have a reservation... I HAVE a reservation.. What do you mean its not in the computer?
The problem is I think that whilst it doesn't have right, it does have huge influence. And matters such as marriage should not be affected by religous dogma.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
And from this strange girl in my informal lit seminar on Thursday who asked me what I [as a Catholic - she's a Russian Orthodox person] think of the new Pope. And while the braindead Catholics in the class all nodded and said they liked him, I put my points across about dangerous uber-conservatism and what changes could be made, eg
1. women priests, why not? - her answer, it says in the Bible that it is men's role to lead worship, why do women need to?
2. condoms! - her answer, oh maybe I can understand that
3. gay marriage - her answer, screams! they're all going to hell, it says so in the Bible...
It really upset me, I had to go home and rant instantly at long-suffering flatmate Uli for several minutes. Luckily we agreed that she was insane. I wanted to tell her I'd never hurt anyone by sleeping with women, but what she was saying was hurting me - so maybe she would go to hell! But it was all in German and in front of other people and she was vile, so...
Fooking Pope, why not get someone about 50 years younger who's actually lived a bit of real life, maybe even had a human relationship, maybe from the third world, maybe not a stuffy old Nazi with an age-old cabal of wizened fascists.
I agree with you John basically about religion no getting involved in politics, its a dirty game of poison, deciet and press-releases. Nice, well-tempered Christians are perhaps ill-prepared for the drawn out bitch fight which is parlimentry democracy. I don't think loving your're enemy would wash in the commons. Anyway, Jesus would probably spit on parliment if he came back now and probably would have called them hypocrites, I think he would of said the same about the pope. However I do think, (the Catholic Church being a negative instance), religion should sometimes get involved in the issues of the day. Otherwise, if it doesn't raise questions about ethics, morality ect, what the **** is religion good for? U c it is possible of course to be ethical without holding any religious beliefs like your good self, but is not possible to be religious without ethics. Religion isn't simply about having a nice incense stick and doing some chants to your favoirite celeb deity be that Jesus or Krishna, you've got to get off your ass sometimes.
Modern Religion needs ethics, even though ethics doesn't need religion. So if we tell religion to not get involved, we're slightly misunderstanding the nature of religion, at least in the case of the major six world faiths. That wierd dood I believe in from Galilee is a good example of a figure who used religion as an excuse not shut up about the right thing to do, even if it upset the status quo. This fact however does not condone how the Catholic Church has attempted to manipulate secular. Well done Spain.
P.S, Have u ever read "The Prince" by Machiavelli?
What gets me, is that the media's infatuation at the moment with interviewing people who he grew up with him in Germany, (which I think was virtually next door to Hitler's private villa).
Apparently, the villagers used to hide Jews & communists from the Nazis, (as it was a heavily Catholic village, and violently opposed Nazism).
One day, a local household took in an escaped man on the run from a concentration camp, some outspoken political critic of Nazism. When the Nazis came for him, he shot himself rather than go back.
The point of this story? Apparently Pope Rat I's family were suspects in the tip off to the Nazi authorities. Sends a chill down the spine doesn't it? He also vehemently oppresses anyone who speaks out on behalf of liberalism in the Church & excommunicates them. No similarity between past & present at all then?
I think perhaps I'll call him Pope Nazi Rat I from now on. Steven xxx.
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CRAP? WHAT D'YA MEAN IT'S CRAP? THERES EIGHT BODIES AT THE END AND HE GETS TO SHAG HIS MUM!!
I reckon the new popey will go on for about ten years - living the life of a king can t be too uncomfortable, can it? And what stress is there when you're so sure of yourself and your hyper-conservative bull****, Ratzi?
quote: Originally posted by: annie "God, save us from the Tory scourge
1. women priests, why not? - her answer, it says in the Bible that it is men's role to lead worship, why do women need to?
2. condoms! - her answer, oh maybe I can understand that
3. gay marriage - her answer, screams! they're all going to hell, it says so in the Bible...
Hmm?"
The bible was written by men with just there so called purist values in mind. Don't forget there's about 80 other books they haven't included which are locked in the vatican (an no i didn't read it in the davinchi code!!)
The pope was picked cause his view is the last one's. All the cardinas now where picked by John Paul for holding onto the traditional values! It's gonna be years before a modernist approch is taken!! If the states can do gay marrige, and they're ****ed up in so many other ways than us, then it won't be too long until it passes here. We've got a gay bishop afterall!! Halleluha
