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Post Info TOPIC: Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
JohnC


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Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
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Over the last few years there has been quite a lot of talk in the society around the issue of the membership fee, with most people arguing that there should be no membership fee, saying instead that there should be no charge to join the LGBT as no-one should have to pay to be gay.

Now, I've given this a fair deal of thought and have come to the conclusion that we SHOULD charge a membership fee, and here I am to explain why.

I'll begin by saying that no-one should have to pay a fee to be gay, bisexual, transgender (or, for that matter, straight, white, middle class etc), and LGBT students shouldn't have to pay to be represented by and in their union. This seems to contradict my view on membership fees, but read on and you'll discover that it doesn't. Oh no.

The second paragraph of our society's constitution details our aims and objectives, the first of which is:

"To be and to operate as a social, educational and support society."

There's also mention of us acting as a representative body.

So essentially we have four reasons for existing:

1. Social -- to organise social events.
2. Educational -- to make ALL members of the union aware of LGBT issues (from equality to sexual health).
3. Support -- to give support to anyone with LGBTG-related issues.
4. Representation -- to represent LGBT members of the union.

LGBT members of the union (whether members of the society or not) should get 2, 3 and 4 for free. We shouldn't have to pay to find out how to protect ourselves from nasty STIs, nor should we have to pay for a friendly ear or a shoulder to cry on when we need it. And we certainly shouldn't have to pay extra to be active members of the union and have our voices heard (we already pay for that through tuition fees).

That leaves us with objective number 1 -- to organise social events...

Most people will realise that we run a "Coffee Hour" every weekday of term. We do this to provide support, education and representation to LGBT members of the union. We also provide tea and coffee. Should we get free tea and coffee just because we're gay (etc)? No -- we should get support, education and representation for free, but if we want tea and coffee then we should have to pay, just like everyone else.

There's a club night in the union once a month called "Creamy". It's organised and paid for entirely by the LGBT society. Every member who paid their £3 to join the LGBT last year was entitled to a discount on the ticket price. That's not representation or support; it's clubbing. Clubbing's not free.

We had a party in September last year, and another in June this year. At both entry was free to LGBT members and at both there were complimentary drinks and a free buffet. If there were a society that gave its members free membership and free food and drinks JUST because they were heterosexual, we would scream DISCRIMINATION! HOMOPHOBIA! If you want booze and food, pay for them like everyone else does.

And there are loads of other things that the LGBT Society provides that we're not entitled to just because we're queer. We're entitled to them because we've paid for them.

So, like I said, you shouldn't have to pay to be gay, and you don't. You shouldn't have to pay for equal representation and a bit of support now and then, and you don't. You shouldn't have to pay for a sexual helath information leaflet, and you don't. The £3 fee you pay at the beginning of the year goes towards tea and coffee for coffee hour, for Creamy subsidies, for our DVD library, for food and drinks at our parties -- not for anything you should automatically get for free.

There's more to follow, but I'll leave it there for now. Feel free to comment, especially if you disagree.

xx

-- Edited by Forum Admin at 14:06, 2004-07-31

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AlbyFC


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John, do you know if sports societies have to pay for their facilities? I mean things like booking courts and stuff...

Sorry to sound so off-topic, but it's interesting the way some societies seem to be treated differently.

-- Edited by AlbyFC at 03:08, 2004-08-01

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JohnC


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Sports clubs are organised in a very different way from societies, and I don't know all the ins and outs. I'm not sure if they have to pay for things like booking courts and things, but every sports member has to pay a fee at the beginning of the year -- it's like the societies fee, but it's a lot more, £20 this year (compared to 50p for societies), and that goes towards the facilities, courts and things like that.

Sports and societies are very different; they have quite different costs and they're run in totally different ways, so it's not terribly helpful to compare the two.

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PeterJ


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I completely agree with John's original point. No, we shouldn't have to pay to be gay (or bi or trans), and No we dont. At the same time though, it's perfectly acceptable to have to pay to help subsidise Creamy, DVDs & books for the library, and the (admittedly small-looking) cost of tea/coffee/milk/sugar/herbal faeces or any other equipment for our social events and other functions.

Other things that we provide like talks on safer sex etc. are, as far as I can remember, always open to non-members as well as our own lovely fee-payers, but then again it doesn't often cost to book a speaker, does it?

Sports clubs do, indeed, require each member to pay £20 in addition to their own membership fees (good for anyone who does loads of sports, but not people like me, who only joined Breakdancing - apparently this is a sport.) It's something to do with maintenance of the uni facilities.

Anyhoo, Yeah, stick with the fees if my opinion is worth anything. £3 isn't much for a year - everyone goes on the mailing list and gets discounts at Creamy etc.

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AlbyFC


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RE: Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
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Ah well... Just shoot me. I had a wonderful speech prepared about sports users being more important than LGBT Soc. members.

I forgot they are actually "clubs", not "societies", and that they actually charge a great deal more!

This is what happens when you enrol and try to forget the experience as quickly as possible.

Anyway, I agree with you, my dears. Most of the best things about the LGBT - support and information - are free, and paying for our club nights and so on is quite reasonable. However, it's Creamy, however sad it may seem for some people, what brings the community together and makes people get to know more people. What are your views on this?



-- Edited by AlbyFC at 14:05, 2004-08-01

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ChipsAndLube


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yeah, i agree too for the most part (having spoken to johnC the other night).

the only reservation i have is about making the joining fee compulsory. i think it should be a donation, like in free art galleries where they ask for a suggested donation of say £2/3. i reckon very few people would refuse to pay. plus, some people want to join and don't necessarily feel able to come to social events. but knowing we exist is just enough to, in the words of trisha, make them feel 'just a likkal bit bettah'. i don't think anyone should be forced to pay the fee. besides, committee members have not had to pay in the past, and i for one drink a ton of coffee.

finally, things get complicated when people join half way through the term, or join at the second freshers' fair in january. if we did move to a 'donation', the suggestions could perhaps be:


  • £3 if you join between sept and dec.
  • £2 if you join between jan and march.
  • £1 if you join after easter.
  • "or whatever you feel you can afford"


opinions?

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PeterJ


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[edit] ! I don't know what you're talking about Dave, I pay my fees every year ! [/edit]

PS. Do you still have 'Bush Slave II' from the LGBT library?

-- Edited by PeterJ at 17:24, 2004-08-02

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ChipsAndLube


Bertha, lovely Bertha, you are a lovely machine.

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RE: Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
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! You blew our cover on not paying the joining fee !


you could always have denied my claims and said it was all lies, but all you've done is confirm it

PS. Do you still have 'Bush Slave II' from the LGBT library?


yup. and politics ant wants to quote it in his dissertation on the EU. somehow i doubt he will manage to

seriously though, the idea of donations will deny anyone the right to squabble about who's paid and who hasn't when it comes to people joining thoughout the year. i mean, we only got half this year's members at the freshers' fair and in the first few weeks of term.

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PeterJ


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Politics Ant? Anthony Hull? Is he in Leeds again?!

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JohnC


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RE: Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
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On the subject of donations rather than fees, I think it would be really complicated for everyone concerned. And I don't think as many people as you think would actually pay. I know I wouldn't.

One of the main bonuses of being a paid-up member of the LGBT is that it also acts as Creamy Membership, which we CAN'T give away for free, and at the moment isn't practical to organise separately.

The other point to consider is that to get funding from the union, societies must make efforts to cover their costs, and membership fees are almost compulsary. If we just asked for donations rather than charging, we would be unlikely to get as much funding as we would if we did charge.

As Pete said, no-one is excluded from any of our events, but if they haven't paid their membership fee they don't have a membership card and so have absolutely no entitlement to members' benefits. They're still welcome at our events, and we still represent them, they just don't get any free stuff.

Being a member of the LGBT gets you almost nothing but financial benefits -- money off Creamy, free booze, free coffee, things which you would otherwise have to pay for. If you don't pay a membership fee, you essentially pay as you go.

As things stand at the moment, scrapping the membership fee (and even replacing it with a donation) would mean Creamy ticket prices going up, fewer books and DVDs in the library, fewer subsidised events, fewer conferences/conventions etc, no more free buffets/drinks at parties. It wouldn't mean an end to LGBT representation, support or education, and wouldn't mean an end to the social side of LGBT, but it would mean that social events would become a lot more expensive for members.

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JohnK


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I find myself much in agreement with John C.

xx


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ChipsAndLube


Bertha, lovely Bertha, you are a lovely machine.

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i made a post here but in hindsight though it better on the committee forum for various reasons.

dave x

-- Edited by ChipsAndLube at 08:10, 2004-08-09

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PeterJ


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Pay to be Gay
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Fees every time guys.

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NickyDyke85


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RE: Should we have to Pay to be Gay?
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Fully support the idea of fee's, its not payin 2b gay or anything, plus the donations thing wunt work cos ppl wud jus take the ****. Anyway £3 a year aint exactly bank breaking 2 get support, gr8 mates, free tea n coffee, cocktail parties & free entry 2 mission twice a week, its a bluddy good bargin!

When I started playin footy I joined a team wi no manager/coach/sponsor/cash, all chipped in a joinin fee, trainin fee's n match fee's & bought food 2 home games 4 after-match refreshments, ok so abit of it went on facilities like stuff does wi sports clubs but rest of it went on keepin the team going & coverin other expenses like booze 4 houseparties, travel 2 matches, food n booze 4 tournament weekends (pitch a tent round a sports centre, spend the weekend gettin ****ed, playin footy, minglin wi other teams, gettin even more ****ed, attemptin 2 play more footy, gettin more ****ed n goin home wi dodgy tan lines where u've had ya socks, shorts, shirts & shinpads on) bookin karoke n gettin trophies 4 award evenings & of course can't 4get most of it went on payin 4 the multiple cards n fines we picked up. Wernt payin 2b footy players, wer jus puttin money in2 keepin summat goin that we wanted 2 keep goin & enjoy it... its basically same situation wi LGBT, payin 2 keep it goin cos we want it :o)

N like i said it's only 3 quid, not like £15 2 join, £2 admin fee, £1 midweek trainin, £3 match days, £7 yellow card, £15 red card, £25-50 for any other mass disturbance caused at a match or tournament. It's practically nowt compared 2 wot u get from it

-- Edited by NickyDyke85 at 04:30, 2005-01-15

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