Hi All,

First post for me on this board thanks to a certain communications officer

Interesting topic this. Despite the fact that I am now a pantheistic meditating Taoist with leanings toward paganism I still have a great deal of affection for the teachings of Jesus. Only trouble is the vocal minority of Christians make me feel unsafe in Christian spaces. I'm fully aware that there are many Christians who are ok and that is great but unfortunately they spoil it for everyone else. I've had too much rejection in the past to let myself in for it gratuitously, KWIM?

It's all this guilt stuff that we can do without. I had so much of it beaten into me at boarding school that I found it really difficult to accept myself. Also I have known of other trans people who have been high pressured into changing their gender presentation back to what it was before and they just get really confused with themselves, being so dominated by people's judgements and the need for approval.

The fundamentalists would demonise translesbians and indeed all of us when all we are is people trying to find a way to express ourselves emotionally so that we can get close to others. The physical mechanics of bodies should really be irrelevant, this should be about human contact and love.

No-one has commented on the current schism in the anglican communion between the progressive N American Episcopalian churches who are trying to affirm the rights of gay people and the reactionary African churches who seem to be stuck somewhere in about 900 BC. I'm very disappointed with the archbeak Rowan Williams because he has caved in to the fundamentalists. All this talk of it being the fault of the episcopalians. Of course it's the fault of those who won't accept their fellows, but then the problem with churches is that too often the hellfire and damnation morons play on peoples fears and turn the whole thing round about and turn it on its head so it is rule by threat.

I don't feel that the eternal security of my soul relies on being signed up to some clique of emotional blackmailers so I'll take what is of value, the parables of Jesus essentially (based on ancient Egyptian teachings btw) and leave the paranoid **** to those who like to torture themselves with fear and doubt their own feelings hahaha

Oh and I like York Minster, the Chapter House has the most fantastic acoustics and I recorded myself doing a Hindu chant there last summer when the crowds disappeared and I was left on my own with my minidisc

And how do you set up an avatar on this board?

Hi Ben, a few points:

A) don't start on jews, mee dad's a Jew, ALRITE?! lol

B) Not many queer people want access to a religion which has spouted filth about them for almost two millennia in an OFFICIAL capacity...

C) you talk about 'greater access', and more tolerance of christianity in the media...I'm sorry, but your religion has been pushed and pushed and pushed through the media for as long as it has been the "official" religion of this nation, you can't GET more tolerant or 'access' than that.

D) it is up to each individual, queer or not, to decide whether they want religion or not.

me
xx

Thankyou Adam.

When I was christian, I was a catholic, so my perception of that religion is greatly coloured by my experiences under catholicism. That this sect should choose to have as one of its (infinite) amount of official lines 'man shall not lie with man as with woman, for it is abomination. Let their blood be upon them' does NOT give me faith in ANY strain of that religion.

The heathen.
xx

Hey sash,

Of course I accept that Christianity has done allot of damage to lgbt people over the past 2000 years. Of course that doesn't change the historic fact that many gays and lesbains have found a home in fellowship with the Christian God eg St Teresa of Avail, St Sergis and Bacchus, St Aelred among others. They found in Jesus the love and comfort they sought and they that they were children of God. I also accept your critisism about the media and Christianity's control of the media; the burning of sacred books Chriian snd non-Christian in the early centuries, particularly the burning of the Libary of Alexandria was a terrible crime. But these days the shoe is so often on the other foot. The Secular media as well as liberals so often stereotype us as anti-gay, backward and brimmingg with hell-fire, when in fact the situation is more complex than this- (paganism has suffered at the hands of the secular mdia too). If you look at the guardian's coverage of the synod in Ireland last week you will notice that more attention is given over to the traditionalists than the radicas of which I'm one. This of course gives a distorted picture of Christianity in relation to homosexuality. To your last point, I agree with Voltaire on thid one, I might not agree with your view but I will deffend your right to hold it; that is the hall-mark of democracy. Gay people have to choose what they believe, it doesn't matter, it is one way by which gay people may expand there vision. Of course this doesn't mean that God love's them any less, as scripture says, "I have other sheep that are not of this fold I too must lead them".

quote:

---

Originally posted by: JesusBitch
"Gay people have to choose what they believe,
"."

---

No they don't I am afraid.

quote:

---

Originally posted by: JesusBitch
"
Of course this doesn't mean that God love's them any less, as scripture says, "I have other sheep that are not of this fold I too must lead them"."

---

Your God does. A lot of other peoples god wouldn't.

I don't think that I need to subscribe to religous scripture or thought to lead a fulfilled, happy and moral life. I don't need a religon, or a book, or anything to affirm my being here. I just am.

I believe that religon is something personal, and when you subscribe to something generic as being Christian, you have to accept that your god might not be the same god as that which your fellow Christian believes in, has faith in or follows. So saying to me 'God does this' or 'God thinks this of you' just doesn't wash with me. Because the next Christian might come along and use that very same notion of God and the bible to condem me or another person simply for being who we are.




-- Edited by JohnK at 17:20, 2005-03-02

Hey Sash

I know how you feel about the whole problem with a religion based on texts. I often have the same dislike. The Bible it cannot be denied is a multi-layered thing which can be interpreted in lots of differing ways but as a gay person I interpret according to my political beliefs. I think the trick I learned from my Anglican Vicar is this, when looking at questions of what is scripturally true or not, you have to draw on three sources, tradition, texts and reason. The last is a vital one. if scripture contradicts your reason (which is a God-given quality) then you have good grounds for finding a new solution to the problem. The thing to remember is that christianity is about a man and the life he gave for others, its not about the idolic worship of a book, (althhough your average fanatic falls into this trap). Its basically about an ongoing relationship with God, the Bible is just a product so I believe of that relationship and according to scripture itself we should not take
the Bible as the final authority

Ben x

Hey Sash,

I've met plenty of these sort of people, but there's something which even they find a particular stumbling block. That is the virtue of "agape", love of your fellow human being without descrimination. You can interpret scripture as extremely as you like, as liberally as you like, but the theme of love is a constant one. When Christians go on about passages from the OT or those 2 from Pail they are forgetting the virtue of love and falling into hate. Christianity of course doesn't ask us to like everyone but it does encourage a search for fellowship, that is beyond doubt, in every translation of the Bible Jesus seeks man to reconcile with one another- "You have one Father (Abba) in Heaven and you are all brothers"- Matt. Let the Evangelicals put that in therir theological crack pipe and snoke it

Ben x

let it not be forgotten that the bible is not a book, it's a collection of books. just like in the same newspaper or journal different columnists will contradict each other, the bible is similar in ways.

Well, if Christianity doesn;t work for you, you can always use this handy link to find yourself a new religion...

http://totl.net/Religion/

Down with Christian Voice. Bunch of hate filled bigots!

down wi dis sorta ting.

careful now.

any1 got a copy of it on tape?

cool

sure y not?!

What the ****? What the ****ing ****? Jesus: 'I'm a bit gay.'

Cue the Christian fundamentalists with chainsaws threatening the head fo BBC2 programming...

sounds good