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Post Info TOPIC: Who Do We Vote For Now?
Who would you vote for? [17 vote(s)]

New Labour (alternative tories, with taxes)
29.4%
Respect (we love everyone... except you!)
5.9%
The Tories (abolish taxes!)
5.9%
Lib-Dems (Iraq... we told you so)
29.4%
Green (woo!)
17.6%
Comunists (where are they now?)
0.0%
BNP (you'll be struck off my christmas list)
0.0%
Old Labour (RIP)
11.8%
Independance Party (we hate the French)
0.0%
Veritas (everything I'm now going to tell you is a lie)
0.0%
Socialist Workers (revolution!)
0.0%
None (why?)
0.0%


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BEFORE I start, I woud like to appologise for the length of the following rant.

Before you know it another election will be rolling round. Blair and Howard will be getting on their political battle-horses for another clash of the Titons, or should I say Tories. The thing is these days there seems to be no difference between the boys in red and boys in blue. Both parties are the friends of privitisation, disguised under the smoke-screen of choice for all. Both tell you their tough on crime,asylum seekers and ant-social behaviour. Both will tell you that under there leadership Britain will be great, so who should we believe? My answer is neither, both are cynical, vote-catching excuses for political parties. What we used to call the Leftwing has be destroyed by 18 years of anti-trade-unionist Tory Government and a futher seven years of a New Labour government equaly obsessed with the right wing policies, anti-trade-unionism, privatisation and free market economics of the Thatcherites themselves. Under this Labour government any reconisable connection to the independant socialist party of my great grandfarther has been abliterated.

In the old days Labour stood for the protection of British industry, fairness, equality, social justice, nationalisation, internationalism, pacfism and progress! Now, we are left with a party of fat cat busines, which cares very little about British industry. This fact is borne out by the consisting closure of car factories up and down te country, the continual decline of British farming & fishing and our increased reliance on forign goods and services, making Britain dependant on other countries fr basic needs. My great grandfarther, who was a Welsh coal miner, would be turning in his grave. As far as fairness and equality go Labour's record realy takes the biscuit. They are such a fair government that house prices are set to rise rapidly in the next four year, pushing many first-time buyers off the property ladder before they set a foot on it. How is this fair, since it will hit those from the poorest backgrounds first? Social justice, in particular Labour's handling of gay rights issues has been nothing but a calculated ploy to win the pink vote! Don't be fooled by the governments gay rights agenda, Blair would sell his granny if it kept him in power! He can pick up and drop civil rights campagns when it fvcking suits him.

The government's international record has been dredful, Iraq beeing the most current xample. By following in the footsteps of a facist American administration. They have gone against the time honoured socialist affiliaion with pacifism and the peace movment. As far as social progress goes, Labour is a shambles. The Blairites are so enlightened that they want to secretly privatise everything, by stealth; the NHS, British education, trains, busses and if left to their own devices, they would roll up the welfare state completly. We will be flung back to the dark days of Victorian England, where all social services where funded by rich benefactors. If howard where in the saddle he would do very much the same thing by a much more obvious process of slash an burn. I am so disolusionedwith both Tory parties that I'm voting for the Green party on May 5th, because I believe it is the only left wing alternative to the New Right virus, which has infected the British Labour party which continues to be bolstered by Michael "something of the night" Howard and his perthetic excuse for a conservative party.

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Vote Green. I'm not going to rant because you'll all laugh at me. But vote green anyway.

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Queen of Quips

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I'll be voting Green thankyou.

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Somebody has to :)

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Pieces of me you've never seen

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I'll be voting for labour.

I'll explain why when I can be bothered.

John xx

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ditto johnK

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I would vote labour, I do kinda agree with most of what they say as a party, but Tony Blair needs replacing, he does some damn stupid things - mainly the whole relationship with America, the war etc.

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I'd like to be able to vote Labour but I can't bring myself to give my support to a lying war criminal who can't accept that he was wrong over the war on Iraq, despite progress on several important fronts that a Tory govt would never have made.

*There WERE no WMDs* and anyone who tells you it was right anyway has to answer the question as to whether they could look in the eye someone who lost a mother, father, sister, brother, child or one of their limbs and tell them that *they* had to make this sacrifice for the greater good. If Tony B Liar was prepared to sacrifice himself or a member of his own family for his own victory I might think he had integrity, but he was only prepared to make the 'blood sacrifice' (to use his own words) of strangers and innocent people in Iraq. To me this is no different to the Aztecs who sacrificed innocents because they believed it saved the world. We are told the sacrifice of the Iraqi innocents was to save the world. What's the difference? Nothing in my eyes. B Liar is a religious fundamentalist in this respect even though he would not like to hear it.

The war was a breach of International Law, there was no imminent threat which justified it and I look to a day when Bush and B Liar are hauled up in front of the International War Crimes Tribunal in the Hague next to Slobbo. It's not impossible and I live in hope.

Sure we now have to deal with the situation on the ground as it is, but I will not accept that the ends justified the means. The means is an end in itself as any student of Ethics will tell you and murdering tens of thousands of innocents to achieve your goal of 'democracy' is a contradiction in terms.


We are told to 'move on'. Should we move on when murder has been committed and the perp tries to persuade you it was self defence when you know it was unprovoked? This is BS. However much they tell us to 'move on' I know that the past always comes to haunt unjust actions and wait to see how it pans out. As Mao said wrt the French Revolution, it's too early to tell whether it was a good idea

There are always consequences, and there is always a price as any Buffy or Angel fan will know. These consequences are the increase in global terrorism, hatred of America and the West in many parts of the Islamic world, and the price is more deaths amongst the occupying forces. To say that Sad git was a tyrant as justification is to attempt to evade International Law. There are plenty of tyrants and the agreement of International Law is that other nations do not have a right to invade these countries unless they pose an imminent threat. Iraq posed no such threat under Int'l Law and so should have been left. Colin Powell took such a view when he was installed as Sec of State. It has become abundantly clear over the last couple of years that Saddie posed no threat to anyone outside Iraq and was actually barely able to hold onto power. Given a little longer there is a good chance that he would have crumbled in due course and it wouldn't have taken 30,000 dead civilians, and several hundred 'merkyns, brits and aid workers to achieve that end. As we were continually told before Sept 11, containment was working, and of course Al Qaeda has only got a foothold in Iraq since 'liberation'. Another consequence.

I shall be voting for the candidate most likely to unseat the (extremely safe) Labour candidate in my own constituency.

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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LIBERAL! I like the colour orange, it reminds me of orange jelly tots, orange fruit gums/wine gums/starburst, terrys chocolate orange & orange smarties (notice how they r the only smarties that taste of owt different)

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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Actually votin liberal cos they r pretty much the only other big party after the other 2 & i agree wi most of wot they say. I hate the tories with a passion, think its summat 2 do wi callin John Major a smouldering sex god, scared me ****less n well put me off tories 4 life...

Labour - war that no1 wanted, y not waste lives n money by followin George Bush? Top up fees, not like am gonna b in enuff debt when i leave uni! Then theres the ****in millenium dome, labour have a spare few million floating around NHS need fundin or summat so wot 2 labour do, instead of puttin money in2 NHS as sum sort of millenium scheme etc they blow it all on a ****in useless pointless buildin, well done! War on terror - BULL**** ur never gonna b able 2 stop terrorists by declaring war on them, they aint afraid 2 die 4 wot they believe infact they want to so they can be seen as martyrs (or however u spell it) y give them wot they want? & the main thing that ****s me off bout labour, they moan about crime etc n how its outta control on the rise etc, of course if ****ing well is, they've made a further 1000 things criminal since gettin in2 power, all ****ing pointless as well, sex in public = 6months imprisonment, wonder why prisons r gettin overcrowded??? knobheads

I'd go in2 privitisation of prisons etc but u'll never shut me up if i do...

-- Edited by NickyDyke85 at 23:04, 2005-03-01

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The millenium dome was a Tory project which Labour just decided to continue with once it was started.

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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ok both parties shud b shot 4 it then :o)

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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quote:
Originally posted by: Spacegirl

"There are always consequences, and there is always a price as any Buffy or Angel fan will know. These consequences are the increase in global terrorism, hatred of America and the West in many parts of the Islamic world, and the price is more deaths amongst the occupying forces."


Interesting points there Claire. Deaths among occupying forces of Eastern countries arise from the hatred of America and thier western supports, which I can understand and its fair to say that America did pretty much bring alot of it upon itself. I know that Bin Laden was set on revenge against America since the Afghanistan vs Russia war where America piled money, weapons & training into Afghan forces so they would beat off the evil communists, when Afghanistan won n the place was left in ruins America withdrew all financial support n left the place up **** creek without a paddle, wud b enuff 2 make any1 feel bitter & bitter towards allies of the country thats caused so many problems.

However I have to disagree with the fact about buffy n angel fans knowing that all this stuff results in an increase of terrorism since the war. Ok so there have been a couple of suicide bombings since the war in Iraq but at no higher rate of terrorist attacks than there was before. You only hear so much about terrorism n terrorist attacks because of all the coverage on 9/11 in the media & the media has this brilliant way of taking extrodinary happenings & desensitising them making them out to be everyday occurances, which they quite clearly arent, all the regular and dragged out coverage of these events coupled with dumb & dumbers war on terror campaign and various anti-terrorism laws, arrest and detention of suspects without trials has also created more media interest about terrorism, because u read about it so much u are lead to believe that terrorism is rife & everyones at risk etc, nothings increased, its just a moral panic caused by media n goverments playing on the facts and blowing them outta proportion to sell papers/gain support for political campaigns.

Its like all general reporting of crime in the media and goverments views on crimes, they'll have u believe owt jus 2 sell papers n make themselves sound good by offerin solutions. I'll buy any1 who can tell me exactly wot type of crime ur most in danger from & which type of person is most likely to be a victim of crime, a drink when i next see them. No cheating by looking it all up like :o)


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The Millennium Dome is cool.

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Pieces of me you've never seen

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Thats really true Nic. Good post.

is Anne Widecombe the Millenium Dome?


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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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Its a possibility that Widdytomb cud b the dome. & cheers 4 comment on my post :o)

Offers still there, if any1 can tell me the correct answer for the following i'll buy them a drink, jus outta interest really cos i got a little theory n wanna test it.

1)Wots the type of crime you're most at risk from?
2)Wot type of person is most at risk from being a victim of crime?

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I didn't buy it!

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i will prob vote labour

urm nic,
a) mugging
b)teenagers ????

xx

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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a)wrong
b) almost

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Butter Me Up!

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a) Burglary/stealing?
b) Young white males?

I'd imagine it varies from place to place, though.

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I thought the most popluar crime to commit these days was white collar crime? O well just shows what I know.

Anyway I kinda agree with Nic about the terrorism stuff, but I don't necesarily think its the papers who are blowing it out of proportion its the stuff the government come out with to justify what they are doing - like the thing about Saddam Hussain being able to launch a weapon of mass destruction at us within 45 minutes, that was blatently rubbish but they used it to try and gain public support for what they were doing, its understandable if having hear that the papers want to make a big deal out of it its scary stuff.

The main problem with it all is that Tony Blair is to blame for so much death and destruction and everything by his decision to go to war, but he refuses even know to admit that he was ever wrong, that his intelligence reports weren't true and that he did a bad thing. So many innocent people died because of his decision to go to war and he can't even admit that it shouldn't have happened. Hence why I would vote labour in the future but could never vote for Blair

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the key thing though is that we vote but i iwsh we voted the primeminister seperate to the governing party becasue i believe in labours policy's but don't want to give blair a vote of confidence. so i think i might vote either green or lib dem but that does seem a waste of a vote

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Bertha, lovely Bertha, you are a lovely machine.

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no vote is a wasted vote, though remember that even though the PM is part of the package, you're voting on so many other things on a local, national, and international level too.

the only way you'll ever have any say in the choice of party leader is to join the party in question. these things are only ever changed from the inside.

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http://www32.brinkster.com/omrlp/Manicfesto2005.asp

I think that solves the election problem.

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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Alice u wer pretty close & Adam u kinda have a point about white collar crime but it rarely makes the news & also rarely gets detected n reported to police so theres no official statistics to back up the claims etc.

Basically the crime people are at most risk from is property crime, which makes up a huge chunk of the official statistics. & the people most a risk from crime are black males aged 18-25 living in poor areas.

The papers do tend to blow things out of proportion. Robert Reiner (criminologist guy) carried out studies of media crime reporting and found the 65% of media coverage on crime featured violent crime & made it sound like violent crime happened all the time and was rife and focused on vunerable groups such as women & the elderly in the stories, which made these people fearful of violent crime when they didn't have owt 2 fear. When infact violent crimes made up 6% of the official stats & BCS stats (recorded crime numbers), now they make up about 10% of the crimes in these figures, but still pick up any paper n a violent crime will be reported in it & made to sound like an everyday occurance, as well as usin a "vunerable" victim. TV programmes etc also focus on crime n stuff as well, all of this stuff combines 2gether & creates a false picture. You do also tend to find like Adam said that government have a say in things, pretty much every paper is affiliated with some political party who encourage these types of coverage n stories etc cos its huge way of gaining votes by clamping down on the problem.

Think again its all bull**** when government & parties claim they r gonna crackdown on crime, like i've whinged about labour they've introduced 1000 new crimes bit backwards if they r gonna crackdown on it. then theres the issues of how to deal with offenders when they 'crackdown' on the stuff like that harsher sentencing aint gonna work etc cos theres already overcrowding in prisons etc & privatisation of prisons doesnt help this cos they cram more prisoners in 2get more money outta government. It's jus gonna make situations more dangerous inside. Plus u can lock sum1 away for ages, let them out n they'll use the freedom 2 re-offend. Politicians seem 2 keep missin the fact that if u look at the causes of crime u can work towards makin them less of an issue etc

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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Am likin the monster raving loony party election manifesto, can we vote 4 these guys??? They r on my level

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NickyDyke wrote
However I have to disagree with the fact about buffy n angel fans knowing that all this stuff results in an increase of terrorism since the war. Ok so there have been a couple of suicide bombings since the war in Iraq but at no higher rate of terrorist attacks than there was before.

Well actually you do have a good point here, but all I said that Buffy and Angel fans know is that there are consequences and a price, not that B and A fans know about an increase in terrorism. Ok pedant mode off. What I was specifically referring to is the incredible amount of fightback by 'insurgents' in Iraq(consequences) which as you say is fed upon by the media in their attempt to make us all afraid to step outside our front doors, and the cost in British and American (and other nationalities) lives (the price).

And who's Claire? I'm Spacegirl

And HTF do you quote from an original post without making your reply come out in heavy type along with the original quote?

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I don't vote Tory!

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quote:
Originally posted by: Spacegirl

"
And HTF do you quote from an original post without making your reply come out in heavy type along with the original quote?
"


just make sure you put the cursor after all the stuff in pointy brackets that makes the quote bold.

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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Can I just ask wot the hell Buffy & Angel fans have to do with anything and why they r been used as an example? Any person alive who can read n form opinions know of stuff such as consequence and price, not a select few who watch crap tv programming.

The fight back by insurgents resulting from British and American forces trying to liberate countries has happened within the countries that the above forces have gone into, if some outside country tried to do the same to Britain would you just stand back and let them change everything as you know it and try to install their own "working" system, or would you fight for what you believe in?

As for the loss of life that has mainly been of soldiers of the occupying forces who are well aware that they will be entering hostile territory and upon joining the armed forces also know that there is a chance of them being killed in action, why rant on about the loss of life like it's a major issue, these people choose to do a dangerous line of work where they fully understand the consequences of what could happen to them, if thats someones life choice then fair play to them. There have been no massive attacks on outside countries or civilians in outside countries resulting from the war and occupation of Iraq.

The point I made about newspapers is that they seem to blow up any terrorist attacks on countries, not that they are using what is going on in Iraq to claim we are all at risk of been attacked by terrorists. Same goes for the government they are using media to bang on about terrorism been a huge issue and we are all at risk cos there's thousands of cells in the UK, theres 35 cells to be exact n not much happening but political parties aint gonna tell u that and are going to use scare tactics and be seen to offer a better solution to the problem than other parties due to the oncoming elections.


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The loss of life in the war has been primarily down to mistakes and accidents not due to suicide attacks. And I have to agree with Nic, if your family had just been blown up at a checkpoint because they were suspected of terrorism on their way back from the market and you wanted some revenge, I'd hardly blame you. All the war has done is create terrorism by destroying people's lives, it is going to turn them towards terrorism as a form as revenge.


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Queen of Quips

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I completely agree.

In my family, if you scratch one of us, we all bleed, as the saying goes. I believe I would kill for my family, so I see why some may turn to terrorism, though I in no way endorse it.



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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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its like ur mates init, u stick by ya closest ones & if any1 attacks them u sure as hell fight for them. Like the saying goes one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.



Who's da Mummy?! I'm da Mummy!

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Hey Nic

About the Buffy and Angel thing. I'm a Buffy and Angel fan. In these progs they are always banging on about consequences of actions and how everything has a price. This is not unique wisdom to Buffy or Angel, it's universal. I just mention it because I am a fan. You could prolly find stuff in the Bible or Das Kapital or the Bhagavad Gita which said pretty much the same thing. I was just spicing up my comments with some refs to my favourite tv progs for a bit of fun, not because they have exclusive rights on wisdom. But it's right I believe, so it's worth quoting just for the helluvit. So to quote someone else, And why not?

As to the later comments from Adam etc that if someone invaded your country you'd want to fight back ~ sure, I never said anything to contradict such an idea and I would indeed do the same.

Sadly I feel that my posting has been rather misunderstood. Unjust actions breed resentment. Violence breeds more violence. Two wrongs don't make a right. And so on and so forth. Now if someone wants to defend Mr I'm A War Criminal Anthony B. Liar we can have a genuine disagreement rather than arguing over a disagreement which doesn't actually exist.

Cheers,

Spacie

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Dame Poofy

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On a completely different note, are Lib Dems still on the stance of "we are against Top-Up Fees"? Or was that just for the last election? Either way, in my area it's still going to stay Tory. They like their Grammar schools here.

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Butter Me Up!

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As far as I'm aware, the Lib Dems are still firmly against top-up fees, and intend to offer grants of up to £2000 for students from low income families. Definitely part of their attempts to sway student voters.

And, of course, this will be funded by putting a 50% income tax on those earning over £100,000 a year...

-- Edited by AliceH at 01:30, 2005-03-13

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Good. I think income tax should be higher on people whoa re stupidly rich.

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You best sima!

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Are there any politicians in government who don't lie? If I ever come across one who doesn't, I'll regain my faith in politics. Till then... hurrah for Aristotle!

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Pieces of me you've never seen

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That's exactly my problem with all this Blair Bashing. Would another PM have acted differently? I don't think so?

So to vote labour out on that principle alone Claire, is rather dangerous, seeing as they have done so much in terms of LGBT rights.

I am voting for my local MP, not Tony Blair. Get a grip and stop jumping on the 'Not In My Name' bandwagon people, which in principle I support, but have lost all respect for recently.

John x

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YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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am voting them out cos i think they cud have dun a better job but didnt. Altho Labour have dun well on LGBT stuff

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i'm voting labour for everything they've done since 1997, and trying to forget about the war. sadly i think this is going to be a one-issue election, but they'll still get the third term because people can see past that whopping big mistake, and the lies which are peddled in the sun, the express, the mail, the telegraph and any other filthy piece of shít-mopping árse-fodder which passes for the press in this country.

and let's hope that hilary benn is at the helm soon x

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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble


Pieces of me you've never seen

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Not testing your wrath hon, but I think Labour have done a pretty good job. but it is all relative I suppose. what might seem good to me, might be **** to you. I suppose that is why we live in a 'democracy' hey.

What I certainly won't do is vote them in on the basis of one issue.

John

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Johnk

The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago


*Censored*

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I will vote labour, but really because I don't see anyone else doing a better job at the moment. In an idea world I would vote green, but it's a bit of a wasted vote really.

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I reserve... I reserve... I have a reservation... I HAVE a reservation.. What do you mean its not in the computer?


Queen of Quips

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I have no faith in Conservatives. I have no faith in Lib Dems. I have no faith in Labour.

What I DO have faith in, is that voting for a particular candidate in my constituency will do right by my constituency, so in that case, I will see who is the best for my area.

I am grateful for the progress made on LGBT issues under New Labour, but I thnk that says more about the queer rights groups than the political parties. Let's all try and stay off the bandwagons. I know I've been guilty of it in the past, but I'm gonna say now, I'm officially off all bandwagons.

If you see I've got back on, smack me. Hard.

me
xx

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Three things that mark the Good Man: Truth, Honour and Love


Pieces of me you've never seen

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I think the most important thing to do is TO vote. Don't waste it, please!

PS. Sasha. I don't think it is just up to the Queer Rights Groups, although I think we have a huge amount to thank them for. What I do think is that the progress we have made - such as Section 28, equalisation of the age of consent, Civil Partnerships and other laws, would not have come into power under a conservative government.

The conservatives, remember, were the ones that supported extending (i.e. wrecking) the Civil Partnerships Bill to siblings and carers.





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Johnk

The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago


Queen of Quips

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veerrry true John, I agree with that big time. I had meant to say that, but didn't. D'oh!

I guess Im just beginning to succumb to political apathy, though I definitely will be voting. I think you're right, it's important to vote.

me
xx

p.s.(I had a German oral about homosexuality and discrimination, and I think I got a 1st for it!! ^_^)

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Three things that mark the Good Man: Truth, Honour and Love


I don't vote Tory!

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quote:
Originally posted by: chemicalfears

"
p.s.I had a German oral
"


oh aye?

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alright stop, collaborate and listen, ice is back with a brand new invention


I don't vote Tory!

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(sorry, that was really childish)

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alright stop, collaborate and listen, ice is back with a brand new invention


Queen of Quips

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don't be disgusting mike, you know precisely what i meant :P

I'm really tired, and listening to semi-slavic/oriental music. makes me sleeeppyyy.....

me
xx

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Three things that mark the Good Man: Truth, Honour and Love


I didn't buy it!

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quote:
Originally posted by: JohnK

"That's exactly my problem with all this Blair Bashing. Would another PM have acted differently? I don't think so?"


i wasnt going to get involved with this because i dont really know anythin about politics at all, but i do agree with john here. i think there have been lots of events that no-one could have predicted and to have as much power as the PM has, such decisions must be extremely hard, i dont think that any decision he has made has been irrational. ok, well thats my little addition sorry if it conflicts with other peoples ideas, politics is a murky cesspool anyhoo. xx

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Phil - Treasurer- luu.lgbt@leeds.ac.uk

~more than a face in the crowd~


YouCanaeSmokeNayHashOn'Ere!

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if ya think politics are bad just discussin them wait til u get forced in2 studyin english constitutional law (its all politics n conventions) u really do lose the will 2 live, sumhow i got a 2:2 in it tho, still tryin 2 work out how that happened cos i wrote both essays when i was off my face

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Nic - Union Council LGBT Assembly Chair

Contact me at - lgbt.assembly@leeds.ac.uk / nicturner_85@hotmail.com

Xylophone Buggery!


One foot out of Narnia

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hey...prob gonna sound really dumb but where do u vote and how? do u need to register or anything? cos i dont think im registered anywhere and dont really know how it works. ta x

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