i always quote from the guardian, so i thought i'd use the mail for once-- i knew they'd be on their moral high-horse.
i personally think blair is right and that it should not be a pary-political issue, never mind an election issue. i mean for god's sake, it's not like every tory party member is catholic and every labour member isn't. it makes rational sense to leave the issue as a matter of conscience for individual MPs.
so do you think it is a valid election issue? do you agree with howard's proposals?
dave x
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burn down our home, RAPE OUR DEAD MOUTHS. Just as long as I don't have to hear anymore of your disgusting babble
I'm split on this. On the one hand abortion and the issues around it are very personal and individual scenarios. Using that, I don't think that this issue should be on the elections agenda.
However, it is in the end the government who change these rules and we should know there standpoint on it as it will affect the personal and individual issues I mentioned above.
I think that the laws surrounding abortion should stay the same.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
quote: Originally posted by: Adam "The Catholic church have no place in elections."
i'm afraid that that's nonsense. the role of a democratic government is to reflect the wishes and views of the majority. in order for this to happen fairly, the views of the population need to be listened to. the catholic church represents the views and beliefs of a sizable chunk of the population, and as such need to be listened to.
it is not, of course, acceptable for the catholic church to promote one party over another, but i don't think this is what they're doing. there's a cardinal on channel 4 news at the moment who has expressly refuted this.
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alright stop, collaborate and listen,
ice is back with a brand new invention
Shall we bear in mind that there are probably more C of E members in this country than Catholic, and that we are in fact, an Anglican nation, not Catholic?
If any church is to be interfering in politics it should be the one headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Queen, not the one headed by the Popemobile
However, I agree with Adam and John - the laws on abortion are fine as they are in my view, though we do need to know our representatives' positions on this. I agree with Adam, but won't back myself up cos ill get all angry and grr, lol.
I don't even see why abortion is suddenly an issue. Is it growing americanisation of our thinking processes or something, lol?
me xx
Meow! >^_^<
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Three things that mark the Good Man: Truth, Honour and Love
Catholic Church should go **** themselves! Abortions a personal choice 2b made by individual... they shudnt have their choices limited or dictated by others religious beliefs
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Nic - Union Council LGBT Assembly Chair
Contact me at - lgbt.assembly@leeds.ac.uk / nicturner_85@hotmail.com
The problem, I think, is that church leaders believe themselves to be the moral compass of the country. They are not. They cannot impose their morality and will on the majority. I do not want to see the abortion laws change in this country. I believe in the freedom of choice and the treatment of each case as unique and individual is of upmost importance in terms of the health and welfare of the woman involved. Abortion is not something that is taken lightly by the woman, and no out dated doctrine or dogma should prevent the woman from making that choice or impose any further feelling of guilt on a woman who needs support and non-judgemental guidance at such a time.
JK x
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago
ok, perhaps too much attention has been paid to the catholic side of the debate in relation to the number of people who are actually practising catholics, but their views are still valid and need to be heard.
i would guess that the catholic view has been so prominent because they provide a clear cut counter argument, and news people like to show both sides of a problem. the catholics are the easy answer.
john said: "The problem, I think, is that church leaders believe themselves to be the moral compass of the country. They are not."
not sure i agree with this. sure, there are plenty of people who disagree with christian doctrines, but a lot of people can and do take the basic 'good' messages of christianity and use them as a moral guide. the very phrase 'moral compass' highlights the role of the church currently in society. we're past the stage where they tell us what to do and we do it or get burnt at the stake. now we can choose to follow the path they suggest if we wish.
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alright stop, collaborate and listen,
ice is back with a brand new invention
It's very rare that I ever side with Michael Howard, and I don't think this is going to be the exception. Abortion is an issue that will rage on and on in ethical/moral arguments. The ultimate decision on the legal limit to have an abortion, at least in my view, should be made by the medical profession. When any political group attempts to hijack such an issue, it can easily become manipulated into a more extremist proposal, such as the abolition of abortion altogether, which is what the Vatican supports.
I agree with JohnK on this, abortion exerts an unbelievable psychological pressure on any woman who has to endure it, and to condemn them for it ad hoc, as in many American circles, is very dangerous, and indeed plain immoral.
The Church does have a very important role to play in society, and indeed the Government should be influenced by it in some circumstances, particularly the more liberal sects of the Church who campaign for human rights.
I believe that Howard has made a mistake on this issue, the Conservatives recent surge of support has been mainly down to the ineptness and unpopularity of the current Government, and the optimism that the Tories are trying to put their bigoted past behind them. This runs the risk of reminding people of just why they were kicked out in 97.
Sorry if I'm rambling, I'll have a think about this one and try and be more coherent at a later date. Steven. xx
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CRAP? WHAT D'YA MEAN IT'S CRAP? THERES EIGHT BODIES AT THE END AND HE GETS TO SHAG HIS MUM!!
Well, this is one of those issues that has not even been news for such a long time (since, I think, it was last debated in Ireland?) It seems to me a case of the Tories doing what opposition parties seem to be oh-so-good at doing, which is picking an issue that they know will win them support (on this issue) from one community within the country, and blowing it into 'an issue'.
I'm a happy enough Catholic and don't see any problem with the current laws. There are precautionary measures in place already and it's not as easy to get an abortion as people seem to think.
Also, there seems to be an overlooked issue which is simple really: What did people do back in the days before an abortion was so accessible? They had illegal abortions (I saw it on The Royal, it must be true). Any move towards outlawing abortions would just feed an illegal industry.
This issue is very important to allot people, not just people who have religious backgrounds, but I also think its a matter of personall moraliity and that a politician, has no right to dictate about how women treat their bodies. Abortion should stay out of politics, it is not to do with left or right, but rather a dualism politicians don't often use these days, right or wrong.
Hmmm, the Tories keep coming up with these voter-pleasing policies which pander to ill thought out and reactionary 'policies' which rely on bigotry and selfishness.
Abortion is not one of these, but this 'opinion' of Michael Howards (for that is what he says it is, and nothing more) is simply a way of pandering to the religous right and all those parents who scream 'Rights, Rights, Rights!' without taking any thought for the responsibilites they have!
arrrrgggh!
ahem.
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Johnk
The only freedom that you’ll ever really know
Is written in books from long ago