meeehhh, those must have been the fakey nuns, the ones who used to work in irish workhouses just so they could get closer to the girls...o_O

i´d watch those fakey nuns if i was you...

now blue and gray MONKS, that would be odd...´

spash
x

i´m not making fun of the church...i´m making fun of monks and nuns wearing particular colours. you´d have to be colourblind like me to understand the humour i guess...

sasha
xxx

Here's a snippet from a recent post by inlowercase. What a brilliant handle, by the way. Just because the shift & caps lock keys on your keyboard are broken !!

"i was taught in church that the bible is a not so much a rigid set of rules but to be seen more as a user guide to life and how we should approach it, which should be adapted to suit the individual needs of the worshipper after all isn't our relationship with our creator the most personal of all relationships and perceived by each individual differently?"

I agree entirely with this philosophy. On the CU forum there have been several occasions where the more liberal contributors have suggested this type of approach, only to be met by vehement disapproval from people such as the anonymous poster on this thread. Call them traditionalists, fundamentalists or whatever. By the way, I am not a member of the CU. I'm a happily married heterosexual Christian who has immense sympathy for you guys and admire your strength in dealing with the perpetual torment lavished upon you by these types of people, and I don't just mean from Christians. Good luck to Ben W. with setting up a discussion meeting / forum with religious groups within the Students Union.

I'm with both inlowercase and MrDarcy here... this is one of the most interesting threads in the history of these forums, but also one of the most disturbing and hurtful ones...

It just astonishes me that at this point in history intolerance and bigotry can be passed off as coherent and valid believes. But what really upsets me is that we still have to go through this process of anger... they hurt us, we retaliate, they charge against us again...

Guys, neither CodeWarrior nor any other intolerant people will ever deprive us of something... and that is our dignity. If tomorrow at night some homophobe comes up to me and punches me hard in the face, there's people like you (friends) to love me and help me heal. Intolerant orthodox people only see walls and fences in the world... they don't know they're missing out on all that's worth discovering in the place where people are accepted for who they are without question.

It's the second day of December... we're only a few weeks away from Christmas, and even people who don't believe in the Bible and its doctrines (including myself) understand the notion of love and respect better than some self-alledged Christians. I think there's at least something to celebrate there.

Kisses to all.

Just read that post Alberto, one of the most beautiful statements I've heard for a long time! Thank you.
Steven. xxx

i find the things posted on the christian forum absolutely disgusting!

People who post things like that with blatant generalisations about all homosexuals have obviously not had much experience with gay people. Generalisations are always wrong and the gay community is as diverse as the straight one.

I can also assure you that as a homosexual I am neither ****ed up in the head or a paedophile. ****NO ****ing way is that staying posted up! - Sorry had 2 edit that out, Nic****

Do you wonder why so many people have turned away from your outdated religion that constantly goes on about who it excludes instead of who it includes?

You have just backed up my view that religion is for those who are weak of mind and afraid of death. I will not listen to any discrimination against people for something they cannot change (nor should they have to) because of you and your ***removed that part as well, religious intolerance, Nic*** god!

***Removed, Nic*** I don't know how anyone can believe that a book written over 2000 years ago ***Removed, Nic*** is somehow relevant to modern life.

-- Edited by NickyDyke85 at 14:34, 2005-12-03

Hey people,

I think we are always in danger of taking polar extremes in this debate. I don't think it is helpful to treat the Bible a homophobic text per se, it is the homophobia which has been imposed on the texts by powerful theocratic elites. As a gay Christian i stand in the middle here between denouncing the church and being part of it, so i don't think its healthy to denounce Christians or the Christian doctrine as a whole just because the teaching of Jesus has been mis-used for homophobic purposes. What i don't accept is when whole sections of people are beguiled by the attractive dogma that our prejudices are legitimised by God, this is a dangerous fallacy which the church has frequently fallen into in the past.

With a number of individuals on the CU forum it is clear this fallacy his persisted. It is a shame and but it so. The vital thing is that we keep on talking and trading ideas; keep on working for co-operation with others even if it is not appriciated. Remember what Jesus says, blessed those who curse you, pray for those who persecute you. This doesn't mean that we don't shout and show our disaproval sometimes, it just means we need to work for concord wherever possible.

"Now, baptists just rock, and evangelists I don´t even have the time of day for."

I was a bit confused by this statement.
Evangelicals are people who have certain beliefs, e.g. see the beliefs of the Evangelical Alliance, which represents about 1 million UK Christians.
Some Baptists are evangelical, as are some Methodists, and some Anglicans etc. The Christian Union is evangelical.

Evangelists are people who try to spread a message and they are not necessarily evangelical, e.g. many tele-evangelists are almost certainly not evangelical in their beliefs.

----
In my view the Bible teaches that the only place for sexual activity is in marriage, and I think the Bible is God's word and therefore important. You are free to think the Bible is unimportant if you want. You can also think (as Ben Wood does) that I have misinterpreted the Bible.
But Christians are not necessarily nasty facists who try to impose their bigotry on the Bible and everyone else. Some Christians may be nasty facists and you can think I am one of those if you want. But I think the majority of evangelical Christians are trying to understand the Bible as best they can and live accordingly. The Bible teaches that all people without exception do things that are wrong - there is no place for looking down on others as if we are better than others. You can disagree with me that sex outside marriage is wrong if you want, but please understand that my belief is not based on hatred of those you have sex outside marriage.


-- Edited by Ben at 14:40, 2005-12-02

In the light of Advent let us go back to the core of the Christian message which is God's promise to us and the world. God promises peace for the world through his son, "the prince of peace". In the life of this man we glance God and the promise made man. We see in him the goodness, the justice and the kindness which should inform all our lives and at this time Christians mediate upon. We cannot extrabilate an answer to the homosexuality question without considering it in the light of the Messianic promise as a whole- a declaration of world peace which is temporal and in history, not merely spiritually. The promise that says through it all God will unite Jew and Gentile, eunuch and married, islands and nations, prophets and kings. Perhaps in our modern world the Messianic promise calls us to rconcile strsight and gay people? Yet, whatever the nature of the reconciliation God has called us to this task

We live as Christians in the light of this future promise, informed and measured by it. "The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder's den. 9They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea". Our actions to be orientated towards God must measure up to the promise and must be directed towards achieving it. If we sow in ourselves discontent and can find no common ground we foresake the promise. If we do not try to work towards harmony in our lives and in our communities we are showing the promise no heed. Wherever possible Christians should work for inclusion, not exclusion, understanding over distrust. Michah says " O mortal, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

That is the fruit of the promise, a manifestation of God's promise within us all. The result of the promise is this says the Bible that the people "shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more": Homophobia and a distrust of difference cannot be part of the promise neither can use of scripture which does not heal division.The Gospel is good news because it says that God's kingdom is in each one of us to recreate, our task is to help bring about a better world. As the Qualer George fox once said our mission as followers of Jesus is to: "Be patterns, be examples in all countries, places, islands, nations, wherever you come, that your carriage and life may preach among all sorts of people, and to them; then you will come to walk cheerfully over the world, answering that of God in every one". Let us remember thid call as debate these difficult issues



-- Edited by JesusBitch at 17:57, 2005-12-02

Thankyou Codewarrior, I am convinced as ever that God does work in mysterious ways because your words as distateful as i find them have promoted this discussion and may bring about more yet. People of diverse opinions sitting down and talking can only a good thing. Your views have promoted thought, composition and reflection, that us the beginning of co-operation and dialougue, although perhaps on a more angry footing than i would have liked. As we begin this process let us pray that good things flow from it in the light of the promise. Yours in peace,

Ben

Anonymous wrote:

---

Gentlemen. Since my posts have caused so much commotion I can assure you that it is not my intention to post again. Indeed my initial post was only for the purpose of allaying some concerns of the forum moderators. I have only continued posting because I felt the things I have said have be much misconstrued and in some cases genuinely misunderstood. I see now that those who wish to bring argument down to over simplistic terms will continue to do so regardless of my protests. Those who genuinely do wish to properly understand my views and arguments can easily do so by perusing the relevant threads on the cu website. It was never my intention to enter in to debate on these topics on this forum. After all why would I replicate my arguments when they are all already accessible on the cu forum. To that effect I leave you to your own devices.

CodeWarrior

---

I am suprised to be honest. did you not think coming on a LGBT forum saying that homosexuality could be a mental disorder, is undeinably a choice and is an evil comparable to paedophilia would cause no or little reaction?

If so you must be naive.

And I am disappointed you have bowed out so early, as I proposed many questions to you that have gone unanswerd - such as heterosexuality being a choice and also, how sexual orientation can be both a choice and a mental disorder at the same time.

But on the other hand, I am glad your gone because I find your views and the arrogant way you have conducted yourself (saying that because I disagree with you, or hold a different opinion, I need 'help') on this forum a disgrace.

Nope, I don't want to 'agree' with people all the time. Infact, I find theological debate interesting. I just dislike it when people have a view so far removed and extreme that its only result is the cause of hate, prejudice and misery.

JOHN

The problem is Ben, is I took that line to mean that I, as a gay man, need help because of some mental disorder I have. That is what CodeWarrior is suggesting is wrong with me.

If I said the same about you, for example, that your faith was a mental disorder, and that your belief on a being that cannot be proven to exist was proof of that mental disorder, would you sit back and say 'Your entitled to your belief' or 'Okay, that is a fair opinion'?

I doubt it somehow. Especially if I came onto the CU forum and began discussing it.

That is exactly how I feel when I see Christians comparing my sexual orientation to a choice, to a mental disorder and to paedophilia. it is highyl offensive, has NO scientific basis what so ever and is extremely rude.

And Ben, you talk about disagreeing with all sex outside of marriage. Would letting LGBT get married solve that issue for you? Would homosexuals be somehow more acceptable as human beings if they had sex within the insitution of marriage?

My main problem with CodeWarrior is his complete ignorance to the consequences of homophobia that he and other extremist Christians perpetuate. Because calling homosexuality a choice, a mental disorder and comparing to paedophillia are homophobic. Why? Because I find them homophobic and I am sure most right thinking people would too.

And believe me, I am all for free speech and opinion. But I am similarly all for responsible speech and reasoned opinion. Not speech and opinion based on shakey interpretation of what I consider to be an outdated and irrelevant text.

"And Ben, you talk about disagreeing with all sex outside of marriage. Would letting LGBT get married solve that issue for you? Would homosexuals be somehow more acceptable as human beings if they had sex within the insitution of marriage?"

I believe that all people are of equal value because we are all valuable to God. This is independent of our gender, race, intelligence, actions or any other characteristic. I don't believe homosexuals are lesser humans beings.
After listing all the bad things people do, the Apostle Paul writes "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all!" Jesus said "No one is good—except God alone." I don't believe that doing bad things, (which every person without exception does) takes away from our inherent value.

-- Edited by Ben at 13:54, 2005-12-03

I'm staying out of this but all at least show some respect, comments like the ones I removed from Cher's posts are NOT acceptable.

All I say on the matter is that I'm as str8 as a roundabout and not religious because I don't believe in settling for just one religion when theres 7 major religions out there, all with contrasting views, personally I like to keep an open mind and learn from others, but I found the comments likening gay people to paedophiles and saying they have a mental illness highly offensive. Unfortunately there are 1 or 2 dickheads out there who take religion to the extremes and will spurt off stuff like this.

However for every tosser there are at least 50 much nicer people, just look at what some of the posters in this thread have had to say, its not all bad and thankfully there are people who are religious but accepting and respectful towards LGBT people. Personally I've got some great Christian friends like Peta, Julie & Richard (he's gay as well) from college, Gemma from infant school, Ben W from here in Leeds, my flatmate Ben from last year (I love him to bits) and last but not least my girlfriend.

If you are going to post on this thread I urge you all to show some respect for others religious beliefs instead of branding their faith a pile of crap and stating that their gods are false, this is just as intolerant as discriminatory comments about our sexuality being made, and in the great nature of things is a hate crime (religious intolerance). Don't throw stones from glass houses. Also bear in mind that within the LGBT community, we have people who are religious, only posting discriminatory comments about their religion cos of 1 twat being out of line, you are only seeking to alienate them from the LGBT and threaten their 'safe space'.

Anyhow, faith is a wonderful thing, don't turn your back on it, if you're LGBT and religious, and looking for an accepting church/organisation there are plenty available, check out these ones:

YLGC - www.ylgc.org.uk
Quest - http://questgaycatholic.org.uk
Quaker Lesbian & Gay Fellowship - www.qlgf.org.uk
Lesbian & Gay Christian Movement - www.lgcm.org.uk
Integrity - www.integrityuk.org
Inclusive Church.Net - www.inclusivechurch.net
The Evangelical Fellowship for Lesbian & Gay Christians - www.eflgc.org.uk
Changing Attitude - www.changingattitude.org
Courage - www.courage.org.uk
Accepting Evangelicals - www.acceptingevangelicals.org
The Safra project (sexuality, gender & Islam) - www.safraproject.org

I appreciate I've not put a full comphensive list up there and some religions aren't included in that list, but I'd b sat here for days if I were to go in depth and search 4 every organisation for every religion. Most of these organisations/churches have websites and can be looked up on google easily.

-- Edited by NickyDyke85 at 15:28, 2005-12-03

I am with Nic and Steve on this one. When I am criticising something I try and criticise the opinion not the person holding it and I am quite happy with people following whcih ever religon they choose.

There are also some links on our own website to other non-christian faith organistations if you wish to take a look.

Ben wrote:

---

I don't think science can prove things not to be immoral. Science may one day prove that there are no discernable physical or mental disadvantages of homosexual relations, compared to heterosexual. However, I believe that some things are wrong that may not cause immediately obvious harm to the person involved, e.g. idolatry.

---

Erm, I'm sorry, but if something is proven to be a natural condition, then what does the notion of morality mean anymore? I'm not sure that you've listened to what I've said. Homosexuality is now universally accepted, (to the best of my knowledge), by the scientific community to be based on hormone secretion and genetic make-up. In the fifties and sixties, when homosexuality was still illegal, much research was put into this idea, and it was attempted to be 'cured' simply by oestrogen injections in gay men, which resulted in physical deformity and rarely any success. My point is that it can be proven to be NATURAL, and therefore totally beyond the control of LGBT people. If it is natural, by considering it to be immoral, you are by necessity of your own beliefs condemning God's creation.
If your point is that homosexuality can be made moral by not having any sexual relations, and persuing a life of celibacy, I would not necessarily take issue upon this point, provided that it was universally accepted for ALL people, not just LGBT people. From my (limited) knowledge of the Bible, Jesus Christ and his followers adhered to a life of celibacy, (unless one believes Dan Brown !!). Therefore, if one wanted to truly emulate towards God, as someone has claimed to be the goal of their belief, then would a life of celibacy not be fairly standard anyway?
Transexuality is an issue that I also wanted to discuss. Is this something that you feel able to accept? The Grand Ayatollah of Iran, (Sorry, I forget his name), recently blessed a sex change operation, as the Muslim involved could not follow his role in Islamic society unless changing his gender. Scientifically, this has also been widely accepted as being natural in psychological circles. What is your perspective on this?
Finally, I wanted to ask you on whether celibacy is indeed a practical way of life. I know many Christian priests, Anglican and Catholic, who are anything but celibate. Many psychologists believe that celibacy is a path to self destruction, when it is forced as dogma as opposed to pure personal choice. May I ask if you yourself are celibate sir, outside of the conception of children?

Yours, Steven. xxx

hi ladies and gents,
loving the debate but would just like to add something to it if i may. a note to all the gays and lesbians out there, we have to remember that we are not talking to the pope here. we are asking questions of the one straight christian (Ben) who has chosen to come here and share what he knows with us. just because his views differ from ours i do not believe that this justifies some members attacking this person. i personally may not believe in some of the views that Ben shares but i have the utmost respect for the fact that he has come to enter into a debate in what i believe has been a relatively no judgemental way.

we are obviously at polar opposites on what we believe and i doubt that one side is ever going to bring the other round to their way of thinking. the important thing is that we are talking and thinking about issues that we might otherwise have taken for granted. i believe that this may in some way serve to help us us find a middle ground that while may not be acceptable to some can work for the majority.

i am even grateful in a way to code warrior. he has served to remind me that there are people in the world still who do not believe that what we do. that (homosexuality) is natural part of life. this has served to remind me that i must not be complacent in my beliefs and remember to appreciate the acceptance and love of the straight people that i do know that share my life without judging my lifestyle.

thanks everyone for a good debate.

Drew

-- Edited by inlowercase at 17:51, 2005-12-03

i apologise if my post offended anyone but those are my views.

ChersBitch18 wrote:

---

i apologise if my post offended anyone but those are my views.

---

Fair point that they are your view. But at the same time offensive comments aren't tolerated, especially when they discriminate against someone based upon their race, religion, faith etc.

"If we do not try to work towards harmony in our lives and in our communities we are showing the promise no heed. Wherever possible Christians should work for inclusion, not exclusion, understanding over distrust. Michah says " O mortal, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Leading on from what I said earlier. I do believe that there is something of God in everyone. God works through individual human lives, even if we may not be aware of such working. Having spent time in the gay community, I have found much of God in the people i have met. I have encountered kindness, compassion and gentleness, sensitivity and acceptence, a fact which the church could learn lessons from. I have met gay people imprinted with God's promise, i have been inspired and warmed by this. These people live sexually active lives but I see no difference in the way they treat others, in comparison to sexually active heterosexuals. It has been suggested that homosexual acts/lifestyle is damaging; clearly it can be for some individuals but not because the acts are homosexual, only because hedonism is damaging in itself. This applies to heterosexuals also, but the church does not force them into a life of celebacy. Heterosexuals are free to choose whether they deny themselves the pleasures of married life, homosexuals are told that many pleasure they foster, even out of love is suspect and cannot be accepted. I detect a double-standard here in ecclesiastical sexual morality. There is of course the flip-side of the coin in regards to living an openly homosexual life. As the gay Christian Mark Kenny writes:

"As I sat on Compton Street yesterday and looked at the lives of gay men and women as they were played out before me, I wondered what the Church should be saying to these men and women. Even through the shortest of observations, it should be challenging the narcissistic and hedonistic nature of much of the scene and gay life in general. A loud voice needs to be heard within the gay community declaring that wholeness and well being cannot ultimately be found in the next session at the gym or the latest piece of clothing or the next ‘pull’ whether they were found in a gay bar, club, backroom or sauna. The resulting instability, loneliness and psychological damage that are produced from such lifestyles demands compassionate but godly criticism and analysis".

Agreed. And this is where i agree with my Evangelical friends. There are gay spaces devoid of God's promise, devoid of human solidarity and good will and this is what the gospel should work against. To generalise however and make harsh statements about gay lifestyles per se shows that you are misinformed and not in touch with the lives of gay people on the ground. God can found in a gay bar just as much as he can be found in the church. One gay guy once told me that he thought God was like a go-go dancer- a strange statement perhaps, but he was using markers from his own experience to point towards the joy that God gave him. Wherever goodness and compassion dwell God is in our midst, if that is in an indie gay night then so be it. The Holy spirit is never shut out, wherever we happen to be God dwells in solidarity with us. We should not, the lesson runs instantly demonise people's lives just because they differ from our own; this goes for the gay and straight community alike. The sacred can and does work in secular spaces, just as it can in church. Gay people so i believe can serve God through their unique experiences of living. God includes them in the promise, "I will say to those who are called 'not my people', 'you are my people'; and they will say, 'you are my God'" – Hosea 2.23. Let cease to demonise but understand.

THIS IS A POST TO CODEWARROPR ON THE CU THREAD, I THOUGHT ITS WORTH PUTTING IT UP HERE

Love all, Ben xxx

Throughot this debate you have expressed your subjective experiences and yet panned them off as unassailable fact. You have treated the life experiences of others with contempt while let your own notions of the objective which suit your arguments. Your use of axioms is a prime example. You define expert opinion as just subjective without any factual basis. I believe that on a number of scores people have offered hard reasoned arguements and you have dismissed them, somewhat off hand.

You will not accept scientific evidence as anything more than wishful thinking, so what will you accept? On what basis do you propose to back up your arguments? What gives your arguments clout. The Bible. Yes, but you believe that your exagesis is right and other interpretations are incorrect. I feel that on some occasations you do play fast and loose with interpreting texts, not bringing in important factors in exagesis like historical context, authorship, composition, translation and the practical application the text.

I did not say you hate me personally but that does mean your views are not offensive. I find many of your arguments compelling but i do not subscribe to them because of where they lead. I think it is possible to argue for something in the spirit of Christ and yet the conseqyences of one's argues could be in opposition to Christian sentiment. For instance although you argue about homosexuality from a Christian position, much of what you have said if taken to their conclusion would lead to a society where gay people would be classed as mentally ill, forced to live withot a partner or be celibate because to you semsual love for one's own sex is fornication. They would be denied the chance to live in society fully and productively. You would consign homosexual people to the status of sex-offender when clearly in the most tangable sense they do not and i do not deserve such treatment.

Your arguements say not if you do that, that is all right, but as to the other, we cannot approve of that”. Whatever you do must be wrong: indeed you are wrong. This may not be the intention of your arguments- indeed i hope you are more of a man than that and are open and compassionate without patronising others. Homosexual love ad its riches maybe beyond you to ever understand or indeed condone, yet love's validty is measured by its intent and its fruit. If love produces, care, tenderness and interdependence then it cannot be faulty. If it does not exploit, negate and castrate another's will it is good. If love motivates others to forgo their own happiness for the sake of another that is higher than all the love the woman-hating kings of Isreal ever had for their many wives. God will judge emotions by the fruit they bare and if the fruit is good then the love is moral. As far as I am concerned I seek only to apply to my own life the rules which govern the lives of all good people: freedom to choose a partner and, when that partner is found, to live with him faithfully. I do not wish to enforce my love on others but i will not evade who i love. I desire what heterosexuals take for granted, respect for their relationships and the ability to be open about such things. I ask only to be given the respect that such love is due, too not be despised, hate or patronised. I ask for nothing more than what is just in a liberal democracy, the rest i will leave to God and his grace and love.

Ben W

Ben wrote:

---

I know many Christian priests, Anglican and Catholic, who are anything but celibate"

Sadly many Christians don't live up to the standards they proclaim. I frequently fail to live up to my own standards. Some churches don't make Christianity attractive. All people fail to live perfect lives.

---

I'd just like to reply to this comment if I may. When I wrote this, I was writing about one man in particular. I won't say who he is, or where his church is, for fear of publically outing him against his will. A church in Manchester where I was born, recently got a new rector. The previous rector was someone I had served under as an alter boy when I was younger, and was devoid of most emotion. One instance was when my father came to his door one evening in the rain, tears flowing from his eyes and tried talking about funeral arrangements about his just departed brother in law. He said it had nothing to do with him, and closed the door.
The new priest is gay and celibate, and has transformed the church and the vicarage to something the local people are now deeply proud of. The church is frequently full, he has a huge number of admirers, works tirelessly for the local people, and has made the area a better place to live. And do you know what? I have yet to meet someone who has had a problem with his sexuality. Even a member of the BNP who, (for reasons I won't go into) was coming into my mum and dad's pub about a year ago, bought him drinks and got on with him.
His role has been to spread love and compassion, not ancient dogma. He is the type of person who is trying to keep the Church alive, not bury it. Britain is becoming an increasingly atheist country, and although in some ways I believe that is a good thing, it is a bad thing if the ideals of the Church, such as peace and love are no longer around us.

Yours in some frustration,
Steven. xxx

Wot in blue blazes does it mean to be a celibate virgin? Isnt celibacy a vow taken before god not to have sex ever? So you can be an unvirginal celibate- cuz u took the vow after doing the do or you can just be a virgin-cuz u haven't dun the do yet. But bein a celibate virgin can only meaN ur a virgin now, and hav taken the vow to remain so? Why at 20 years of age, cud sum1 have decided to take the vow of celibacy? Doesnt this sound a bit unusual? It'z not that unusual to be a virgin at 20, but to be a virgin and declaring urself celibate?idont no if i waz cutout 2 b either 4 the rest of my live.Wot if you get marriedin the future since u say the christan way is no sex before marirage?wouldnt declarin yourself celibate prematuredly then make things awkward?wud u then try n compromize wiv god?i just fink itz a very rash fing 2 sayat 20. good convo evry.

bi...curiousity (giv ita go...u mite b pleasantley surprised, x)

Adam wrote:

---

You know what, I was about to write a big rant full of starred out words in repsonse to that quote. But to be honest I just find it sad that you, and others like you have it in you to be so prejudiced against 10% of the world's population. And don't claim that you aren't being biggoted. Inferring that being gay is a mental ilness, that we are somehow inferior to you because of a charactersitc we have through no fault of our own, that is biggotry.

---

Very true Adam, sitting readind this thread with others, and over time I got more and more angry. I was hoping mad! Was never gonna waste my time and comment, but cannot resist any loner. But then once again I thought, why even bother commenting. Let them (or him) have their say. Some people just cannot accept when they are wrong, and by wrong I mean unwilling to look outside their 'Oh So Holy Book' and see that people are and need to be different. And they probably never will. They have their belief system, let them have it. The bible says love thy neighbour, don't judge, blah blah blah. And what is he doing? Dishing out death and judement left right and centre. In the end, we're all judged by 'One' - and that certainly is NOT someone from a Christain Union society!!

One last comment. Heterosexuality needs Homosexually. Its believes that it is right and we are wrong. Therefore it needs us to measure and compare against, otherwise they would be nothing..................