I'm a cow!

this is really interesting actually as down here in southern sheffield, our LGB has been pondering (or rather having over-heated debates) becoming an LGBT. unlike ur society, our LGB is a union committee, so we are essentially a support group and our social emphasis is side branch of that. i'd say that opinion was almost totally split. whilst most people agreed that something should be done, many people who had looked hard into this thought that becoming an LGBT was not the most beneficial solution for either LGB or T people. a possible solution was to become an LGB&T committee, showing that whilst we are happy to be together, we appreciate that the issues involves with LGB and T are not the same. eventually the committe voted, and after a few rounds of an ASTV (a vote that goes in rounds, like they have when they decide where the olympics shall be held) we decided to move to become an LGBT by 5 to 4 over LGB&T.

sorry for wittering on so much but this has been such a hot topic down here this term, with so many different view, ideas and opinions, and obviously, with it being quite a delicate subject, it's lead to some nasty spats and fights. however, what i think everyone has agreed is that T folk need official recognition in the union, and that their fight for acceptance in society is even harder than that of lgb people.

take care

gareth x

I am taking the piss because it is a silly post. The LGBT is here to represent people who have differeing sexuality and gender identity than what society considers the norm. If you wish to extend that to start covering things like this, whether it is a serious poster or not, you end up with a slippery slope where you would have to start recognising my right to self identify as a tin of beans. My point is that this is not what an LGBT society is for.

Adam

I have to say, i agree with anon, and mightily disagree with Nic. You have been quite rude to a person who has not been quite objective. Nic, considering you preach for the rights of trans people i would expect you to be open to new ideas. Who are you to assume that this person, who is being courteous, is necessarily 'taking the piss'.

If indeed this person who identifies with an animal is approved by society, and if, per se, this person was as hot as hayden christianson....

could the assembly please run a petition to legalise beastiality?


lighten up guys, i'm sure trans people find this all very sporting and if anyone wants to self-identify as a can opener, i'm sure adam would be open to your offers...

ThaiDave x

thank you all for the responses.

I'd just like to say that in my inital post, i was actually asking a serious question. i have an interest in the lgbt community, and though i'm not particularly furry myself, i do know people who are, and it was just something i had been wondering for a while.

I honestly did not mean to cause anyone any offence, least of all trans members of the society. Nor did i want to draw unfair or inapropriate comparisons between groups. if anyone felt that i was attempting to upset them, please understand that i just wanted to discuss something, and not attack or single people out. if anyone took my message that way, then please accept my apologies. again, thank you to those who are willing to discuss in an adult manner.

that said, though, i wouldn't mind discussing this a litte more. chemical fears, you're clearly very well read on this subject, but i don't neccesarily agree with what you've said. though it's true that the DSM may well classify clinical lycanthropy as a disorder, that's a state of mind where someone believes that they have (or havet he ability to) transform into another animal, rahter than just those who self identify with animals. i disagree that therianthropy is neccesarily a mental disorder (i cant find many refereneces to it as a medical classification, aside from an offshoot of body dysmorphic disorder - again, not exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the post). however, your mention of the DSM and classifications of disorders also raises an interesting point - both the DSM and the european ICD still list fetishistic transvestism, transsexual transvestism, and gender identity disorder as sexual disorders (they are all listed under the F.64 category of the ICD10, as far as I can tell). What's your take on that? personally, i think that it's disgusting that, medically speaking, the trans members of our society are still classified as having a mental disorder.

however, as you pointed out - "What you're talking about can not be proven to exist by science ... and therefore not really something for this society, as far as i can see", is basically the answer i was looking for.

x

Anonymous wrote:

---

thank you all for the responses.

I'd just like to say that in my inital post, i was actually asking a serious question. i have an interest in the lgbt community, and though i'm not particularly furry myself, i do know people who are, and it was just something i had been wondering for a while.

I honestly did not mean to cause anyone any offence, least of all trans members of the society. Nor did i want to draw unfair or inapropriate comparisons between groups. if anyone felt that i was attempting to upset them, please understand that i just wanted to discuss something, and not attack or single people out. if anyone took my message that way, then please accept my apologies. again, thank you to those who are willing to discuss in an adult manner.

that said, though, i wouldn't mind discussing this a litte more. chemical fears, you're clearly very well read on this subject, but i don't neccesarily agree with what you've said. though it's true that the DSM may well classify clinical lycanthropy as a disorder, that's a state of mind where someone believes that they have (or havet he ability to) transform into another animal, rahter than just those who self identify with animals. i disagree that therianthropy is neccesarily a mental disorder (i cant find many refereneces to it as a medical classification, aside from an offshoot of body dysmorphic disorder - again, not exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the post). however, your mention of the DSM and classifications of disorders also raises an interesting point - both the DSM and the european ICD still list fetishistic transvestism, transsexual transvestism, and gender identity disorder as sexual disorders (they are all listed under the F.64 category of the ICD10, as far as I can tell). What's your take on that? personally, i think that it's disgusting that, medically speaking, the trans members of our society are still classified as having a mental disorder.

however, as you pointed out - "What you're talking about can not be proven to exist by science ... and therefore not really something for this society, as far as i can see", is basically the answer i was looking for.

x

---

hi anon, sorry i got so uppity in my first response, but i did think it came across a bit out of order due to the fact i thought it was a piss-take!

that aside, yes i agree with you, it's reprehensible that trans folk are still classified as mentally ill - i have been forcefully told by one psychiatrist that yes i may have mild gender dysphoria but if i ever tried to do anything about it (which i wouldn't because i'm not uncomfortable with my body) she would try to hinder my efforts at every given step because she did not think i could ever pass for a woman (well judging by the greatness of my eyebrows, deepness of voice and general physical maleness she's right). this however, is their prerogative when it comes to the diagnosis of gender dysphoria and whether to advise hormone treatment/SRS...

as for therianthropy...well, isn't it true that all new ideas are regarded as heresy until accepted by a critical number of people? perhaps therianthropy and lycanthropy ARE real states of being. a crazy man is after all only somebody who sees differently to everyone else...it doesn't mean that he is WRONG.

so, apologies for what came across as a tirade and a mistake about mental disorder classifications, lol!

hope you potter around on the boards for a while to come!

sash
xxx

Sorry anon but i took it to be a piss take. Usually cos most stuff like that from anon posters is.

special_k wrote:

---

this is really interesting actually as down here in southern sheffield, our LGB has been pondering (or rather having over-heated debates) becoming an LGBT. unlike ur society, our LGB is a union committee, so we are essentially a support group and our social emphasis is side branch of that. i'd say that opinion was almost totally split. whilst most people agreed that something should be done, many people who had looked hard into this thought that becoming an LGBT was not the most beneficial solution for either LGB or T people. a possible solution was to become an LGB&T committee, showing that whilst we are happy to be together, we appreciate that the issues involves with LGB and T are not the same. eventually the committe voted, and after a few rounds of an ASTV (a vote that goes in rounds, like they have when they decide where the olympics shall be held) we decided to move to become an LGBT by 5 to 4 over LGB&T.

sorry for wittering on so much but this has been such a hot topic down here this term, with so many different view, ideas and opinions, and obviously, with it being quite a delicate subject, it's lead to some nasty spats and fights. however, what i think everyone has agreed is that T folk need official recognition in the union, and that their fight for acceptance in society is even harder than that of lgb people.

take care

gareth x

---

Hey Gareth, glad to hear its gone thru down there... a couple of ur delegates at summer conference were dead against it & actually went as far as speaking against the NUS trans reps havin equal voting rights like the rest of the NUS LGBT Committee, so I were wondering wot had happened with it.

On a seperate note, when is the Christmas Climax/Glitterball on?

special_k wrote:

---

---

Climax Glitter Ball will be 15th December, that's a Saturday xXx

---

U sure on that cos I swear down that the 15th is a Friday. Unless Glitterballs on Saturday 16th (praying its on the sat cos I'm out on works xmas bash on 15th)

i have it confirmed by ents - sat dec 16th.

---

I think it's much better being the LGBT and having a T officer because I know that I'd prefer to be known as being part of the LGBT rather than being part of a seperate T group and everyone knowing straight away and being labeled (if you know what I mean???)

The great thing about the LGBT is that, unless you say, noone will know! You could be straight for all anyone knows!

---

Very true, no-one would ever know!

MrDarcy wrote:

So is that aimed at Trans people who found it offensive?

being offended by every tiny thing is such a perfect way to live.

I think it was infact an overall call for the removal of many poles from alot of peoples arse's ,
and secondly members should not be so quick to attack some one as has been clearly shown here.....yes what they saying might be offencive and/or odd to most peoples views but,to be honest most of the LGBT is offencive and odd and we ask for acceptance and so get over it.
But also a line does have to be drawn on who the SOC can, "in the real world", function with as members, why is the idea of being a plant more ofencive than being a animal or being a pot of marmite...there all the same and yet we rank them diffrently.
Accept all or accept none but dont get offended by it, just grow up.

i don't think steve was at all having a go at trans people for being offended i think he was just observing that having a chip on your shoulder and taking issue about everything isn't healthy.

not necessarily to do with trans issues or the post.

i'm not defending anyone just saying

xx

this thread is stupid i would like to point out that those who are trans have a hard enough time being bullied by the "Normal" members of society (cant see whats so normal about reading the sun... sorry did i say reading i meant looking at the cartoons of ethnicminorities grrr)

i would like to propose if this anon person really wants to be a cow or a tin of whatever then go form your own support group called the im in desperate need of an attitude tune up group.

would like to also say that as a minority group we should be a wee bit more welcoming to others.

have you considered, though, that i (the original poster) find it rather offensive that you instantly put my views in two one of two categories? i'm either taking the piss, or i'm (in your words) "****ing stupid". so which is it? as i wasn't taking the piss, i'm clearly stupid, right?

"i would like to propose if this anon person really wants to be a cow or a tin of whatever then go form your own support group called the im in desperate need of an attitude tune up group"

was that aimed at the original post? if so,i fail to see in what way that is compatible with the idea of being more welcoming to others. just because our views on a topic differ, it doesn't mean that i'm 'in need of an attitude tune up'. if i had said about transsexual people that they need an 'attitude tune up', i should hope that you'd all jump down my throat about it... but because you're making these comments about a group that you don't associate with, then that's fine, is it?

as i said before, i didn't mean to offend anyone (and again, I apologise if anyone has been upset by my comments),but I agree with MrDarcy,that it's odd for you to defend the rights of one group whilst potentially offending other people just because they don't fit into YOUR worldview of what is and is not normal.

x

Anonymous wrote:

---

have you considered, though, that i (the original poster) find it rather offensive that you instantly put my views in two one of two categories? i'm either taking the piss, or i'm (in your words) "****ing stupid". so which is it? as i wasn't taking the piss, i'm clearly stupid, right?

---

I explained reasons why I thought that were n apologised in an earlier post

Anonymous wrote:

---

as i said before, i didn't mean to offend anyone (and again, I apologise if anyone has been upset by my comments),but I agree with MrDarcy,that it's odd for you to defend the rights of one group whilst potentially offending other people just because they don't fit into YOUR worldview of what is and is not normal.

---

Any comments following after my post explaining y I thought u were taking the piss, wern't directed at you or aiming to offend you. They were gettin at a completely different point n people altogther, which is the fact that Trans people and their issues are been treated as a joke n disregarded by people within the LGBT.

If u've still got a problem feel more than free to pm me or e-mail me, will quite happily talk it all thru

Arsecandle wrote:

---

the amount of time i've seen censorship of peoples opinions just because they don't match the committee leaves me roling my eyes.

---

Just to note, this is the reason why this thread is still open. We do not believe in the oppression of freedom of speech.

If someone directly complains about this thread, it will be closed, but as no-one has actually stated this yet, and people are just assuming that others have been offended, it will remain open.

Please just keep it democratic/hypothetical and do no make personal comments.

ok so anan was not meaning to offend people. noted

nic and myself have apologised to anon and I have offered to sit and chat with those whom wish to become furries

and people are obviously not that outraged because no one has voted to close the thread so lets just sat that it is unfair to poke fun at anyone for thier sexuality or gender as it goes against everything the LGBT stands for this includes hetrophobia which is rempent in the LGBT i will admit even i fell into the trap like vanessa flets into a cream bun

Yes.....and then I ate pizza.